My wife considers me to be a romantic guy. I always remember birthdays, anniversaries, special songs we've listened to, things like that. I tell you this so that you don't write off my thoughts further down the page as ramblings from an insensitive git. The main reason that I don't like most romantic movies is not because I don't find romance exciting, it's because I feel like they fail to deliver true romance.
There is a theme that runs through these movies which I feel people buy into pretty wholeheartedly. It glorifies your desires above all else. Any person who has had their desires infringed upon in any way is now an incomplete person, and it would be better for everybody if they found somebody who would make them complete. Or, it would be better for that person and not everybody, but that person is ultimately all that matters since that's who the star of the movie is. In fact, most of these movies involve the star being incomplete WITH somebody, not just simply incomplete all by themselves. It involves a choice between one person or another, one life or another is the way they sell it usually.
Think of some American romance movies... Casablanca, The Notebook, The Wedding Planner, Sleepless in Seattle, Brokeback Mountain... These types of movies tell the tales of people who either became complete by leaving their relationships with another, OR the tragic ones where they would've had they only but they never did so look how sad it is.
We worship ourselves and our desires naturally. Which is why this notion appeals to us above all others, that my needs are ultimately the most important. But when we give into this kind of thinking, we never will be complete no matter what choice we make or how many soul mates we find. Hollywood wants you to feel that getting everything your heart desires is what you should do, b/c they want you to buy the popcorn and soda that your heart desires.
The story is in the telling, and any of these romance stories could be told as horribly sad dramas if the other perspective was taken. We could watch Sleepless in Seattle from Bill Pullman's side of things, which is that he's a terribly nice fellow who's found his dream girl in Meg Ryan. He loves her with his whole heart and she leaves him all alone. Then he spirals down into a deep depression always blaming himself for the loss of his one true love, and the movie ends when he jumps off the empire state building to his death. Then the camera pans over and sees Meg Ryan and Tom Hanks holding hands for the first time. We would hate them. But we don't. We love them because their story is our story. Bill Pullman doesn't exist in our minds because he got in the way of the completion of Meg Ryan.
The things that you sacrifice for are the only things worth living for. It's through sacrifice that true romance is born.
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12 comments:
I would call myslef a fan of romantic comedies, but I agree with your critique of the movies you listed (although I've only seen The Notebook and Sleepless in Seattle).
My favorites are When Harry Met Sally and While You Were Sleeping. I think what I like best about them is the main characters' relationships with other people in the film. The friends and family members are real characters rather than the types they tend to be in other romantic comedies. This way, the romance doesn't happen in a vacuum.
I just ordered Stanley Kubrick's Spartacus from Netflix. I'm excited.
Check out this site of the 1001 Movies You Must See Before you Die:
http://www.rinkworks.com/checklist/list.cgi?u=fimbrethil&U=wintermute&p=1001movies
Your comments got me thinking about how in many stories, the "good guys" could be hated when seen from another point of view (and we needn't even go so far as Wicked).
Think about a movie like "The Fugitive" where the US Marshalls have to deal with self-important small-town sheriffs. But then watch a show like "Law & Order" and the Marshalls are pompous gas-bags who constantly overstep their jurisdiction.
I could say the same thing about war movies, but I promise not to turn all discussion on this board in that direction.
Well since I am a hopless romantic and you know this Ryan I'm sure you knew I would get in to this conversation. Romantic Comedies are probably my favorite genre. I have seen so many that yes after a while it does cause you to distort what real love and movie love should be. They are getting better at making the movies more realistic. They still need to keep your eyes focused on the ball that's why Bill Pullman is jumping off the Empire State off Camera (that's funny). I recently watched Failure to Luanch which was a fun movie but again the ending was just far fetched. The beginning was good and it flowed well like you were just hanging out with some friends but then it turned into some sad pathetic attempt to salvage something that really wasn't needing to be saved. So I understand what your saying and I do see it. Sacrifice is a given when it comes to matters of the heart. Whether we give up something or someone for someone else we all must give up something to be with are true love. So are you saying you want to see a movie with 2 people who are complete and watch them fall in love and completely they run off in the sunset. What a sucker! We all need to struggle their struggles are our struggles that's why we all relate to the characters. We must like or dislike the charaters and most of the time they do their jobs and we feel their pain because we been in similar situations. They just enhance things for the big screen. I know there has been movies that have made you cry or gety teary eyed or at least where you related to the character somehow. But i do agree it would be cool to see other piont of views. We could make a movie about the consequences of romantic comedies and call it "colateral love damage"
And just show all the people who were ruined by them being left by the main stars to fall in love with some monkey in hollywood. It would be a thriving success. I will start writing it. HAHA!
Well, I suppose I should say that there are certainly romantic comedies that I enjoy (When Harry met Sally definitely included). So it's not that there is nothing in these movies that I agree with.
The thing that bothers me is that more people get ruined by these movies than the characters who get dumped that we don't think about anymore (poor pullman). The viewers have their thoughts/hearts pulled in different directions and are effected in some way as well. There is one main issue which I'm trying to hit on when it comes to these movies... adultery. Other things are worth looking into, but this is the one that's most poignant in my opinion.
When a person is in a marriage that doesn't seem fulfilling, then that dream person comes along, the audience WANTS them to commit adultery. They're not happy!! They deserve to be! Their spouse doesn't truly love/understand them, this person does, they need to be with them... that sort of thinking. This is poisonous, and the viewer certainly does not separate their opinion from real love vs movie love, quite the opposite. They become fused together as a result.
In order for the audience to cheer for a break of committment to embrace total fulfillment, they must somewhere inside feel that this is ok. If a viewer doesn't find this acceptable and therefore doesn't cheer for the "romance" to happen, then the movie is somewhat bland to them. It's only when you play along with the movie-maker do you really get moved to tears.
So can I buy into these notions in order to love a movie but not somewhat believe/apply them to my own personal thoughts/life? I believe not.
I'm just glad you mentioned Brokeback Mountain in your short list of examples of romance films. Too many people think of it as something else b/c it involves the romance between two men. Thanks for notably not discriminating against gay family!
Hey there Bethany, thanks for joining us! I see no reason to make a distinction between that and other romance movies. I actually appreciated that they showed the longing that the main characters had as well as the breakdown of their marriages as a result. Most films want you to forget about the effects of your actions outside of yourself. Brokeback Mt. actually put some focus into that, and I thought they did it well.
I don't want to ruin that film for anybody who hasn't watched it, so read on if you are not in that category. The 2 characters did forget about their other lives with longing for each other. But their other lives kept on happening around them regardless. I feel that romantic comedies try to erase this fact, while dramas try to highlight it.
buddy, looking over that list of the 1001, it was inspiring to make me watch all of those older films.
I agree that some messages from these films can be wrong ones if you look at it from a moral stand point. I suppose that when it comes to LOVE we can do what we want no matter what the consequences may be because it's what drives us to be happy. I think they are getting better at doing films with divorced people (Must Love Dogs), or just single people as time goes on I think they understand what impact films make so they are and need to start sending clear messages about what their morals are in their films, but isn't that what filmaking is all about. Getting your point across. I know that sometimes movies show some immoral things but would we really watch a movie that was morally correct the whole way through, veiwers need excitment and drama. Like you Ryan I enjoy them as art but do not always agree with there methods. If they did not commit this act where would the story line go. I like romance where one character might be screwed up in the begining but comes around in the end those are good messages like A Walk To Remember! As Good As It Gets! Those are fun and leave good morals still in the film.
Well I by no means am suggesting that I only want to watch films that are about characters with no issues. I'm all about showing depravity as you all probably know. So it's not that characters are immoral. It's that the message they are sending is more underlying and it's wrong. So people have to embrace it if they want to enjoy the film, yet they don't even realize that they've embraced a worldview!
I disagree that we should do whatever we want in order to make ourselves happy, especially when it comes to love. This notion is actually the opposite of what I believe love truly is, which is about self-sacrifice, not self-centered. Right? How can we think this way though if we believe that we have a right to be happy and that anything in our way doesn't matter?
Must Love Dogs was another example of a woman having to choose between one life or another, essentially. There's the more handsome well off man vs. the less well off artistic not as handsome man who makes her laugh more. Why are these choices SO hard that we have to keep making films about them? Do we ever learn? If the choice was obvious, nobody would enjoy the film b/c there would be no tension. So somewhere inside of us wrestles with these same questions.
My sister, who is as into romatic movies as I am, has a whole list she refuses to see ("Forces of Nature," "While You Were Sleeping" etc.) because they involve someone stomping over a committed relationship to pursue something that supposed to seem like better true love.
I think one of the other problems with them is that they create these perfect characters, flawless love, etc. that real life can't live up to. I really do know women who keep rejecting men because they don't say the right thing always, etc. Well, no one says the right thing always, except when Brad Pitt or George Clooney is following a script.
It's almost like porn in that it sets impossible standards for our partners. A guy might look at Playboy and think "I wish my girlfriend had thinner thighs and ..." but a girl probably watches "Jerry Maguire" and thinks, "How come my boyfriend would never make a speech like that in front of people to try to win my love?"
That said, I'll still watch every crappy rom-com I can get my hands on, though I did take down my 6-foot-tall posters of "The Object of My Affection" and "One Fine Day."
Where in While You Were Sleeping is a character "stomping over a committed relationship to pursue something that supposed to seem like better true love"? Or did you mean Sleepless in Seattle?
Dagnabbit. I surely did. I'm confusing my movies.
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